Body Resources general whackiness
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OK, so I’m not sure what Peak has cooked up, but it seems like a different implementation from S7 that has the same LifQ sensor package and S9B that has very similar if not the same firmware.
Here’s what I’m noticing after 8 days with Peak:
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It’s pretty much impossible to reach 90-100% resources level, even after 8-9 hours of restful sleep with 85%+ quality and restful evening prior to that. My RHR in Peak is set to conservative 44. WHOOP gives me 42 and HRV4T 41, for example. The Peak itself reports minimum HR during a day as low as 40-41 (and on occasion 39). So, that old “your RHR is set too low” explanation from the early days of Firstbeat algos on S9B doesn’t fly. Also, S9B with the same settings regularly has seen me around 90% and S7 works pretty much as one would expect.
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It appears recharge happens on a way slower time scale than drain. I can see Resources dropping 20-30% in a matter of hours for no good reason, yet 8+ hours of restful sleep would only add back about 40-50%. See the photo below. Notice how slowly Resources recharge during rest and sleep, and yet as soon as I wake up, they begin dropping like I’m in a fight for my life. The slopes are incomparable.
- On more than one occasion I’ve seen my status as recovering, the bar in the graph colored as green, yet resources dropping. See below: I’m in the green with about 20% left, go to sleep, and then my Resources drop to below 5% before starting to grow again. What’s up with that?
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@nickk said in Body Resources general whackiness:
On more than one occasion I’ve seen my status as recovering, the bar in the graph colored as green, yet resources dropping. See below: I’m in the green with about 20% left, go to sleep, and then my Resources drop to below 5% before starting to grow again. What’s up with that?
not sure about the rest but the bars are 30min timewindows that can hold more than 1 state
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos I understand. But see above.
That last green bar with about 20% Resources prior to drop is when I went to sleep. And I slept. There’s absolutely nothing in my HR that suggests heightened stress or anything. And yet the next green bar is clearly below 5%. I dropped 15% body resources in half an hour while sleeping and recovering?
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@nickk maybe you had a nightmare?
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@nickk even with low HR HRV is playing the role here. 24/7 does HRV for resources its not HR based. So totally unrelated to rest HR max HR etc.
FB blackbox
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@dimitrios-kanellopoulos Agreed. But it’s the same HRV S9B and S7 were looking at. And when I say same I mean it. My baseline and normal range have been fairly stable recently. Here’s another image, see if you can pick when I switched to Peak
Let me give you another example.
I went out on a low aerobic 2 mile run on an easy flat trail, 73% of MHR. This was as much of a test for S9P as for my new trail running shoes. The run was then followed by a hardish crossfit type of workout, plenty of pushups, kettlebell swings, and box jumps – still the peaks haven’t even touched my LT threshold and an average HR for the activity was at 70% of my max, easy-peasy. Now look at the Resources:
I understand these were literally the first workouts I did with the brand new watch and it was still calibrating the algos, but dropping from almost 80% to about 5% after about 50 minutes of activity? Even a threshold run shouldn’t produce such a drop! If the watch doesn’t have a valid baseline to work off, it should make some reasonable assumptions, and 75% of resources in an hour isn’t that.
It seems Peak is too eager to drain the Resources but nowhere as eager to charge. Which is kind of ironic coming from a fast charging watch
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@nickk I see similar things (and I also have the impression that the S7s resources where measured better). I also find resources dropping much faster than on the S7 or the S5. I am often at 0% around 18:00 while doing nothing extremely strenuous.
Today my resources dropped dramatically (purple arrow) while driving to work (no heavy traffic etc.) and working sitting in a office and didn’t raise very much over the work day, but suddenly rose when walking the dog (green arrow)…
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@chrisa Thank you! That makes two of us! And great you can relate it your S7 experience. The LifQ sensor is probably not the same, but at least it’s the same outfit that made it. So, can’t be blamed on the sensor package differences entirely.
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There is an issue reported here actually. Sorry didn’t get the overall problem.
The sudden drop is an fb issue on s series. While the same hrv and same fb libraries it’s different platform lib versions.
Search sudden drop of resources. You will find exactly what you need. (here)
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@nickk I find that my stress levels (both mental and physical) have a major effect on resources. For me the resources are fairly accurate, when they have dropped unexpectedly as my physical activity was not responsible, it was clearly mental stress. There is ample research data demonstrating that overall stress is what you want to measure and assess prior to hard workouts. A high mental stress day dramatically reduces my recovery from that stress with sleep, which typically isn’t as good as from a hard physical stress day.
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@brad_olwin I understand. If we were talking S7 and even S9B, I’d agree with you wholeheartedly. There Resources indeed works as intended and in predictable fashion, for me included. If there are any quirks they are reasonably rare. But my S9P does strange things…
Now we know that sudden drop is a known issue apparently per @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos, that’s been discussed in the forums in the past. So, that settles some of the above.
What it doesn’t explain is how a restful evening of me rewatching Futurama and reading a pleasant book, followed by no less restful sleep ranked at 94% quality and lasting 8.5 hours, gets me anything less than 100% resources? Especially with WHOOP and HRV4T reporting lower RHR and way-above-average HRV?
Furthermore, why then Resources start dropping at a speed that suggests a major stress day or a hard workout and yet, none of that is occurring? Sure I can feel if I’m that stressed?
Maybe it’s just me (apparently not), but I think FB algos need a bit tweaking in S9P. Perhaps, some of the S7 and LifQ goodness didn’t get grafted correctly.
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@nickk For me resources matched best with how I felt and what happened around me, when wearing the S7. The S9B, the S5 work good too, but there were sudden drops in resources (like @Dimitrios-Kanellopoulos said) but as a whole it worked and the same is - as a whole - true for the S9P. Perhaps for me it’s maybe a weather related issue? With very hot days and heavy thunderstorms at night here in southern Germany, this might be a reason for my resources dropping faster and not reloading as much through the night? I have not measured my sleep/HRV with another device, but tonight when it was cooler and there were no Storms, resources rose to 93%.
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@chrisa Interesting theory. Unfortunately, weather here in New York has been cooler than usual this time of year, and all storms passed a while back. But I’ll pay attention to environment. It’s a good idea.
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I have a theory about this: I’ve noticed that, since switching to a Peak, my resources have been lower than on the Baro, and I can’t explain why.
At the same time, I’ve noticed that the watch is much slower to display an active HR when I scroll down from the watch screen, and it’s also struggling to reliably deliver SpO2.
I’m wondering if there’s a correlation here between new sensor and these issues. How’s your SpO2?
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@ze-stuart My SpO2 is all over the place. Sometimes it’s 98%, sometimes it’s 89% and at no time I actually asked for it. I think the measurement gets triggered from me accidentally tapping when going around the HR screen and even if I tap away from SpO2 view, it still runs the measurement in the background.
From what I can see, there has to be something wrong with FB daily stress bits in S9P upon which Resources is based. It’s as if the watch is completely off in its HRV baseline. What would be normal to low stress values is considered high stress. You know the type of stress when you lose 10-15% of Resources per hour. Likewise, the rest/no stress gets billed as low to medium stress and results in slower than usual recovery. As a result, after a good restful night I get only 70% resources and within a few hours this drops below 50% even if I pretty much do nothing, just sitting and reading.
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@nickk
My resources are same if not higher compared to Baro. Try same breathung technique as described in HRV elite app if you want to pump resources up. Not 3 minutes, try 30.
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@lexterm77 I don’t want to pump anything up. I want Resources to reflect how I feel and increase/decrease in predictable and realistic fashion. Like they used to on S7 and S9 before I switched to Peak.
If Peak’s Resources work for you, fantastic! They don’t for me. And apparently, I’m not the only one.
Hopefully, this issue will be addressed in future firmware updates. If not… well, there are devices, from Suunto, that get this right. It so happens I already own them.
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@nickk I really expected the S9P to show quite similar Resources as the S7 too, since it’s the same / similar sensor. And at least for me the S7‘s resources really matched on how I felt and how things were going very closely. I will try a longer breathing meditation in the next days and see it that impacts the S9Ps readings as much as it did the S7s…
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@nickk
Do you wear them at same time? S7 and S9P?
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@lexterm77 I thought about it, but realised I didn’t care that much…